Somebody please explain??

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RedtailRob	Somebody please explain??	Lead	[-]
Posts: 235 (20/10/2009 09:52:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None OK, guys & girls time to get something of my chest. Can someone please explain to to me how / why using pellets is not " proper catfishing" I've read this sooooo many times both in print & in particular on this forum If i set out from home & fish a water for cats with a size 1 or 2 hook and fish with 2 or 3 22mm Pellets on a hair and with 32 B/S main line coupled with 3.75 TC rods how does that NOT qualify as catting ?? Most anglers i know fish with prepared baits all the time including baits such as Luncheon meat, sausages, Paste etc Are these not +! baits also? Surely a pellet made from fish meal & fish product & designed to feed a predatory species i.e. Trout / Halibut etc qualifies more than a bait for human consumption such as meats? Most Cat baits are just Large +! baits- no? At what point does a +! bait become a cat bait? I spoke to someone on one water i fish this year who said and i quote" I wouldn't use pellets- it's not proper catting" What are you using i replied.... Luncheon meat on two rods & double boilies on the 3rd - I nearly died get a grip! Worms are another example and what point does using worms qualify as a cat bait rather than a general bait? 5 worms , 10 worms , 15 worms, What if some fail of ?? You get my point people ???? I was catching small kittens whilst float fishing with worms this year, does that mean i was catting ??? Don't get me wrong people my favourite method by far where it is allowed is Livebaiting especially with big winched out Lives but this is either not possible or not allowed on allot of waters i fish. I don't understand where this snobbery towards baits comes in. I've managed x 3 40's this season 2 on pellet & one on livebait, do the 1st 2 not count?? One was the same fish that i caught twice on different methods, does it not count one time but does the other ?? Surely if you set out to target a particular species & rig up / fish in a certain manner and manage to catch your intended species you have achieved what you set out to do as you have caught by design & not by accident or mistake. Think we need to re-address how we look at it people. We are already an alienated bunch being catters, lets not discriminate from within! I look forward to the responses on here although feel i may have opened a can of worms. Nothing like abit of lively debate i say! Rob P.S. Guess i should have posted this in the methods,baits & rigs section - DOH Last Edited By: RedtailRob 20/10/2009 13:41:15. Edited 2 times.
pikin		#1	[-]
Posts: 338 (20/10/2009 11:30:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well Rob, The post is a belter!!! In my eyes as long as you set out to catch Catfish by design and can does so on a regular basis any method is good if it works? Regards, Paul Last Edited By: pikin 20/10/2009 17:29:50. Edited 1 times.
Zygote		#2	[-]
Posts: 123 (20/10/2009 11:57:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here, here. I spoke ill of pellets earlier this year, but that was mainly due to fishing a tiny venue and seeing loads going in. With hindsight, I think I was reading into the blanks far too much! I've been fishing over big beds of pellets all season since then (on a much larger venue, I might add) and, in recent weeks, have started using double-glugged pellets on one rod as hookbait. I'm still catting as far as I'm concerned! In fact, the only cat I've caught in the past fortnight fell to the double pellet rod, so they're going nowhere! But, you're right Rob. We all use various methods that work, hopefully, so who cares what category certain baits fall into? If anything, I feel that I missed out on many cats earlier in the season by not using pellets when carpers were catching all the cats. I won't be making the same mistake next Spring! Bait is a means to an end, in my opinion, and if you're successfully catching your chosen quarry, then that's all that matters surely! Regards, Damon.
Margin Man		#3	[-]
Posts: 210 (20/10/2009 13:20:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you are using boilies, pellets, nuggets, particles, corn, nuts or similar, 10mm , 14mm, 21mm, 28mm, hair rig, side hooked, or superglued, popped up or whatever on a fixed lead, you've spodded or boated out a few kilos of freebies to a clear patch you've found with your marker rod, your rods on a pod, lines bow string taut, with dangly indicators underneath....... You are $%# fishing. And you will catch cats, If you are using livos, deads, worms, leeches, liver, squid, big baits on big hooks on running leads , catocopters, dumbells, leech rigs, circles, your seperate rods pointed at the baits , or up in the air and theres a big BIG can of worms in your bivvy. Now you are propper CAT fishing. And you wont catch $%#. I am a propper cat fisher , but Iv'e been outfished many a time by carpers with their boilies, seen lots of cats on the bank with a tiny size 10 in their gobs and a carper saying "I was lucky to get that in, its only 10lb braid " Its all about your own personal attitude to fishing. Iv'e never seriously targetted *$%#, bream, tench or barbel- for 30 odd years Iv'e only fished for eels, pike, zeds and cats, as Mick Brown once said "I only go for fish with teeth" Yes you have opened a can of worms , but which can , a carper's or a catter's. Chris .R.
RedtailRob		#4	[-]
Posts: 235 (20/10/2009 13:49:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Margin Man your post has more holes in it than the aforementioned can of worms! I've caught ***# on squid, Liver & fish sections using 1/0 hooks on running rigs. Surely you can't be serious about which way your rods point??? What if i fish 3 running rigs on a Rod Pod with liver, squid & worms & take them out by Boat onto a nice patch past the weed or gravel for example, does that mean by your example I'm no longer catting ?? If you set out to catch a species & catch that species by design then surely your successful, No?
RedtailRob		#5	[-]
Posts: 235 (20/10/2009 13:57:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Interesting reply Margin Man, unfortunately i find it too have more holes in it than the aforementioned can of worms! I've caught *%@% on squid, liver & fish sections on size 1/0 hooks and running leads! & Surely you cannot be serious about which way you point your rods as a qualifer for what species you are fishing for?? Also what if i fish 3 rods on a rod pod because the ground is solid or wooden, baited with Liver, worms & squid & take them out by boat past a weed bed for example, does that mean I'm no longer catting? At which point in your argument does it no longer become catfishing? Surely if you set out to catch a particular species & then succeed in doing so you're successful no? Rob P.S. I too only fish for Fish with "teeth" but then all fish HAVE teeth! LOL
Clarkey1972		#6	[-]
Posts: 102 (20/10/2009 14:10:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have never hidden the fact that I am not a lover of pellet fishing, though I do very rarely use them myself although mainly for free offerings rather than hook baits. I am a traditionalist and dont like to use pellets, boilies etc etc and much prefer lives, deads, worms etc etc but I if you target cats with pellets good luck to you. My problem really stems from the Ebro phenominon and the sacks full of bait that go in to feed and hold the fish for easy fishing / money making. I know this is a generalisation and not all Ebro guides do this, but the majority do and like a pellet, leaves an unsavoury taste in my mouth. Rich
BPS1		#7	[-]
Posts: 504 (20/10/2009 16:37:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My first choice of attack is and always will be with livebaits purely for the sense of exitment that type of fishing brings , i'm not a lover of boilies or pellets for cats but i will use them if needs be, i dont see the point of sitting behind baits that are being ignored when others are being taken. If your fishing a venue that is also a *#+# fishery and the cats are seeing these as a food source then why not use them? Anyway has anyone bothered to tell the cats that pellets and boilies are not proper baits for them? cause they bloody eat enough of them thats for sure Give a man a fish you feed him for the day, Teach him how to fish and you get rid of him for a whole weekend
HH		#8	[-]
Posts: 72 (20/10/2009 17:19:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice to have a decent debate going on within our forum. From my perspective I fish primarily for predators and in a fashion that I choose. This being to employ predator tactics of live and dead baits. If I am unable to get the baits I need (or rules prevent me using them), then I would then use sea baits, liver or leeches. I have used both pellets and boilies in the past and have caught cats to a decent size. HOWEVER I also caught lots of !$!$ and if I'm catching !$!$ that means I'm not effectively fishing for the bigger cats. I don't want to catch !$!$ as I'm after cats and that is my choice. Boilies and pellets are not baits that permit you to easily catch the bigger cats so are not selective. Banking the occasional !$!$ is something that you can put up with but when you start to catch more !$!$ than cats then you are indeed carping. I can understand that some anglers simply cannot stand blanks so 'double up' by using pellets and boilies. Maybe they have travelled a long way and want to ensure that their journey is not unproductive (# is any session unproductive simply because you blanked ?). I put in several thousand miles each year after cats and still prefer not to catch !$!$ when I'm targetting cats. My choice. For me the key is that I prefer to use a bait that the bigger cats will accept and that !$!$ will not. That maximises my opportunities with big cats.
Margin Man		#9	[-]
Posts: 210 (20/10/2009 17:50:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Clearly my post was just a lighthearted view on the carper / catter subject. Please dont take it too seriously .I too have had %!#* on squid etc etc ,but in general they are cat baits. Rods, I like my lines to "take the path of least resistance" ie baits in different areas on different methods means rods and alarms allover the swim, one up, two down you know what I mean, an untidy set up , whereas a carper likes a neat and dare I say it "tarty" set up , not meant as a dig at you Rob, just a lighthearted look at carpers in general. If you fish with boilies it does'nt mean your not catting and of course every fish counts , It's just that I personally prefer not to fish that way Chris .
pheel steel		#10	[-]
Posts: 402 (20/10/2009 18:09:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I can agree with most of what has already been written. I prefer to catch on livos; there's nothing quite like the sound of a tail slapping out in the distance, followed by the bite alarm sounding. Although I love catching on the 'naturals' I don't like blanking!, so if I'm on a water that responds well to pellet or boilie, a rod or two will go out on them. Obviously, if the c@rp are a problem, as they are on a lot of waters, then I tend not to use the pellet. I've been lucky this year that one water I've fished this year has only given me one c@rp and that was a 25lber on pellet. Incidently, out of the thirteen cats from there, at least eight were on the pellet.
Maurice Johnson		#11	[-]
Posts: 141 (20/10/2009 18:41:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think the main reason boilies and pellets are not regarded as "propper" cat baits is that boilies were "invented" primarily for c.a.r.p and pellets were "invented" for marine fish, specifically for halibut hence their full name "marine halibut pellets". If you are using these baits, although you may be intending to catch cats you are in fect, as a matter of necessity, fishing c.a.r.p "style". i.e. hair rigs, small(ish) hooks etc. Hair rigs remember were also invented primarily for catching %%%+. In short you are doing it exactly as c.a.r.p anglers do it! I agree with Chris about rod pods etc, not many true cat anglers that I know use rod pods whereas a fair percentage of %%%+ anglers do. I like the line of least resistance, my rods point in all directions, as straight at the bait as possible. On the water I spend a lot of time on, (Rackley), it wasn't all that long ago that everybody was fishing all four rods on livebaits, then one or two people started to use boilies, then pellets, then more people started using them and now there is only me and two other guys who still fish livebaits. A lot of it is sheer lazyness, they can't be bothered to cary the extra bit of gear and groundbait needeed to catch the baits, put some time in to catch the baits etc. Once they realized they can catch on these baits, and that it's far easier and convenient, they can't be bothered with livebaiting. However, they are losing a lot of the excitement that goes with livebaiting, the absolute screaming runs when a cat hits a livebait as well as seeing the take when fishing on surface with a starlight which I have done several times. There is nothing like it and I wouldn't pay the price of missing that just for the ease of using convenience baits. Waters where livebaits are banned, I won't fish there - simple. I don't understand the mentality of fisheries that have cats and then stop you using cat baits to fish for them. Last Edited By: Maurice Johnson 20/10/2009 18:44:03. Edited 1 times.
marc portch		#12	[-]
Posts: 347 (20/10/2009 18:56:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I couldnt agree more with you Rob. I've also had the " I wouldn't use pellets- it's not proper catting" conversation a few times. i think we can all agree the most exciting way to fish is with a livebait but pellets catch a lot of cats! Simple! it is purely up to everyones own angling ethos as to the methods they use to fish, how often, duration etc but for me it is just another productive bait that i can use when i think i need to. I think the size of your bait and the tackle it is attached to might be a dividing line (for me anyway).. i know some on here will disagree but my standard pellet hooklink consists of a 150lb swivel, 45lb quicksilver to a 4/0 owner hook.. all with 4 or 5 x 22mm, or 2 x 35mm pellets and half a wine cork... can anyone really think that i am %$@* fishing? i can honestly say that i have never caught a %$@* on that set-up. if im catfishing a new water i will always put pellets out on one rod. ive caught plenty of %$@* on big chunks of liver though! so much so that i dont really use it anymore.. although i reckon it could be a great %$@* stalking bait. i still do the odd bit of %$@* fishing now and then and to suggest to a carper even half size of most items on the hooklink ie, 75lb swivel, 2/0 hook, 35mm pellet etc would result in profuse sweating and screams of "presentation, presentation!" (in fact, you would probably get thrown in on some of the park pools around here! (and i'm not kidding)). as we know, pellets are more successful for cats on %$@* orientated lakes as it becomes a food source very quickly and easily, and this is where i think we need to be careful as cat anglers. i think it is very easy to over do it with pellets, so much so that we might be ruining other methods.. perhaps food for thought. I do occassionally fish over a big bed of pellet and think it is a viable method, but only occassionally. with regards to Mequinenza; you are right Clarkey about the ridiculous amount of pellets that go into the river but there are a couple of things to consider.. the big problem is the amount of what can only loosely be described as "guides" over there.. all trying in vain to get on the back end of the success of the fishery even if it means ruining the place.. there are simply too many and some of these people push using tons of bait onto their customers who pay for it...if you had been saving for your 1st trip to spain and the guide tells you that you will catch twice as many if you put twice the bait in, you would, wouldnt you!? in reality, you only need a couple of double handfuls around each hookbait but how are they supposed to know that. the other thing is that most other baits are banned there nowadays, courtesy of the local angling club and fish police.. livebaiting is banned and some police have told people using pieces of squid that it is livebait! work that one out!?! the trouble now is that the cats have got very used to sitting in the same areas having pellets fed to them so they then attract more people throwing more pellets in, its a vicious circle and it is no surprise to me that people are getting loads of twitches over there now... i can only see pellets being banned there in the end and then there are very few methods to use over there, legally! sorry ive waffled on as usual.. just my thoughts. marc ps. as for anyone fishing 2 x 20mm boilies or suchlike.. leave it out... you arent fishing for either cats or %$@* and for neither very effectively anyway.
Maurice Johnson		#13	[-]
Posts: 141 (20/10/2009 19:57:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Marc, Where are you getting your 150lb swivels from? LOL
FarmerJilesy		#14	[-]
Posts: 174 (20/10/2009 20:11:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think it's more for traditional reasons that pellets or boiles aren't classed as proper catting. I started out using pellets because the cats were practically addicted to them and the fishing was easy, too easy really, oldskool baits and methods still worked but fewer people were using them. I was lucky enough to fish with a 'proper' catter, glen the brum, who showed me a whole new world of baits like lives, leeches, popped up worms/squid etc and all the rigs that go with them, and of course, the winch rig. That's proper catting and I think it's a much more exciting way of going about it, the inovation involved is brilliant and makes it much more of a challenge, when you catch a cat you feel like you've earnt it alot more as well.. Pellets and boiles are mudpig methods and even tho they catch loads of cats, it's just not 'proper catting'.
Margin Man		#15	[-]
Posts: 210 (20/10/2009 20:36:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Rob, in your first post you wrote " We are an alienated bunch being catters" could you please elaborate on this . Have I missed something over the years .
bnbond		#16	[-]
Posts: 575 (20/10/2009 21:09:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree with you Rob, I go Catfishing to try to catch Catfish and if pellets are the going bait on the water I am fishing because the %#+#%% crowd have done a lot of groundbaiting for me then pellets it will have to be. Regarding livebaiting as a `traditional` method for Catfishing which after all is only a little over 25 years old am I really Catfishing or Pike fishing with a single hook and picking Cats up by accident the same as %#+#%% anglers do with boilies.
marc portch		#17	[-]
Posts: 347 (20/10/2009 21:16:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Maurice Johnson wrote: Marc, Where are you getting your 150lb swivels from? LOL i'm on the case mate! i think i might have found what we're after but im trying to find someone who has tested them. not sure about your comment "you are in fect, as a matter of necessity, fishing c.a.r.p "style". i.e. hair rigs, small(ish) hooks etc.". have you seen my rigs mate? hi jilesy, hope you had a good season fella. i fully appreciate what you are saying mate, and agree for the most part, but surely the use of a new bait is innovation? just because something was made for another purpose doesnt mean we shouldnt use it? i'm pretty sure livers werent invented to feed catfish. i totally agree that the "traditional" methods are, in the most part, more exciting but as for singling out one or two baits as being "just not proper catting", i just cant see the argument.. its just different and a natural progression. dont get me wrong mate, i prefer to use traditional methods myself but will use pellets without a second thought if i think it will catch me a cat and the other baits are slow. interesting debate all, although im not sure it will ever be resolved, if it needed to be in the first place. cheers, marc ps.. come on! hands up!.... who's got a bait boat that they use for catting ?
RedtailRob		#18	[-]
Posts: 235 (20/10/2009 21:56:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi all. Well Im glad that my post raised some interesting points & discussion at a time of year when our traditional cat season is coming to a close. Some very interesting points raised on here guys! Margin man I totally read & took your post in the light hearted manner in which it was intended, no worries m8. I agree with what your saying with regards to the @@% boyz and their respective set ups. Some of my best friends are @@% anglers and i always sit and smile whilst they try to line up their rods & indicators so that they're deal level -ridiculous. Different horses for different coarses i suppose. I too angle my rods towards where they are cast as best as can- years of pike fishing taught me that! Where possible i too prefer to fish with "predator" methods such as live & deadbaiting but on alot of waters i fish this would result in blank sessions whilst watching other anglers hooking cats. Just wanted to raise the topic & listen to some views. Margin / Chris what i meant by alienated was probably a missuse of my words what i mean is we are a marginal group in comparison to the mainstream of @*@% & match angling and are looked on as such! Rob
Maurice Johnson		#19	[-]
Posts: 141 (20/10/2009 22:40:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	marc portch wrote: ps.. come on! hands up!.... who's got a bait boat that they use for catting ? I have, when allowed to use it - for towing livebaits out! lol
Dave Aylett.barbelfishingworld		#20	[-]
Posts: 81 (21/10/2009 07:20:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Me too... Marc, why do you ask??don't think baitboats have any underlying to carpfishing do you? Mustn't forget that pike anglers have been using these boats (when we had to make our own) for many many years. Wouldn't dream of not using one (if allowed of course ) for putting livebaits out mate.

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